1
00:00:22,950 --> 00:00:14,910
[Music]

2
00:00:27,670 --> 00:00:25,830
come blast off in my time machine third

3
00:00:41,590 --> 00:00:27,680
eye feeling like an evil

4
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:47,110
blast off

5
00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:49,430
welcome to another episode of hero

6
00:00:54,630 --> 00:00:52,320
paranormal podcast

7
00:00:56,869 --> 00:00:54,640
i am ryan the original outlaw of the

8
00:01:00,150 --> 00:00:56,879
airwaves bringing you

9
00:01:03,430 --> 00:01:00,160
this vip episode

10
00:01:06,550 --> 00:01:03,440
broadcasting just south of area 51 at

11
00:01:12,789 --> 00:01:06,560
the base of la madre mountain

12
00:01:16,630 --> 00:01:12,799
in the silver state of nevada

13
00:01:19,749 --> 00:01:16,640
our guest today is john

14
00:01:25,109 --> 00:01:19,759
steiger prolific writer

15
00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:25,119
of the ufo trilogy dramas for the stage

16
00:01:31,270 --> 00:01:28,400
talk about a barn burner

17
00:01:31,749 --> 00:01:31,280
john really put a ton of research into

18
00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:31,759
this

19
00:01:38,069 --> 00:01:35,280
since 2010 and he mentions

20
00:01:39,030 --> 00:01:38,079
there may be a cover-up but we're gonna

21
00:01:42,310 --> 00:01:39,040
get into

22
00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:42,320
that and so much more following up with

23
00:01:47,670 --> 00:01:45,600
what seems like an unfathomable

24
00:01:49,030 --> 00:01:47,680
amount of research john has put into

25
00:01:50,469 --> 00:01:49,040
these ufo cases

26
00:01:52,789 --> 00:01:50,479
the three that we are going to talk

27
00:01:55,429 --> 00:01:52,799
about today

28
00:01:58,270 --> 00:01:55,439
but before we do have you been over to

29
00:02:01,429 --> 00:01:58,280
hero paranormal podcast

30
00:02:03,650 --> 00:02:01,439
heroparanormal.com or hero paranormal

31
00:02:07,109 --> 00:02:03,660
on facebook if not check it out

32
00:02:13,670 --> 00:02:07,119
[Music]

33
00:02:17,270 --> 00:02:15,910
spacewolf research you can find that at

34
00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:17,280
swr

35
00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:22,080
on facebook and spacewolfresearch.com

36
00:02:28,309 --> 00:02:25,120
just something we do for fun

37
00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:28,319
this ufo trilogy dramas for the stage

38
00:02:34,869 --> 00:02:31,440
john became inspired by the idea

39
00:02:36,710 --> 00:02:34,879
of a jury trial drama and

40
00:02:39,670 --> 00:02:36,720
i think that's the best way to go about

41
00:02:43,110 --> 00:02:39,680
it getting to the truth

42
00:02:45,190 --> 00:02:43,120
with the audience as a jury examining

43
00:02:47,430 --> 00:02:45,200
all the research that he's done since

44
00:02:50,949 --> 00:02:47,440
2010 to get to the truth between

45
00:02:54,790 --> 00:02:50,959
the arguments what an amazing way

46
00:02:58,229 --> 00:02:54,800
to guide prolific research

47
00:03:05,350 --> 00:02:58,239
into extensive theories

48
00:03:08,869 --> 00:03:05,360
taking in the skeptics weighing in all

49
00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:08,879
and you know you just have to buy this

50
00:03:13,830 --> 00:03:11,120
check it out

51
00:03:15,110 --> 00:03:13,840
dramas for the stage the title you can

52
00:03:18,550 --> 00:03:15,120
get this on amazon

53
00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:18,560
it is from the flying disc press the ufo

54
00:03:23,589 --> 00:03:19,920
trilogy

55
00:03:28,390 --> 00:03:23,599
dramas for the stage go to amazon

56
00:03:31,509 --> 00:03:28,400
pick up a copy it's worth every penny

57
00:03:33,190 --> 00:03:31,519
you go into the rendelsham forest

58
00:03:37,350 --> 00:03:33,200
incident

59
00:03:42,470 --> 00:03:40,710
and the brooklyn bridge ufo

60
00:03:46,869 --> 00:03:42,480
investigation

61
00:03:50,149 --> 00:03:46,879
all of them deeply deeply researched

62
00:03:52,630 --> 00:03:50,159
definitely check that out and

63
00:03:53,190 --> 00:03:52,640
uh in other news we have some really

64
00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:53,200
cool

65
00:03:57,429 --> 00:03:56,080
swap cast podcasts and patron podcasts

66
00:04:00,710 --> 00:03:57,439
that have been going on

67
00:04:02,470 --> 00:04:00,720
if you haven't been to podbean.com go

68
00:04:04,869 --> 00:04:02,480
over there and look up hero paranormal

69
00:04:07,670 --> 00:04:04,879
we have a patron platform there

70
00:04:08,390 --> 00:04:07,680
if you haven't been to patreon i went on

71
00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:08,400
there and i

72
00:04:11,910 --> 00:04:10,080
like subscribed to three or four things

73
00:04:12,550 --> 00:04:11,920
it's hard not to it's the only way to

74
00:04:16,469 --> 00:04:12,560
really keep

75
00:04:20,150 --> 00:04:16,479
up with those you want to keep up with

76
00:04:22,310 --> 00:04:20,160
and go to patreon

77
00:04:24,310 --> 00:04:22,320
and you can find hero paranormal there

78
00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:24,320
too now

79
00:04:29,590 --> 00:04:27,440
we are also going to be on

80
00:04:30,790 --> 00:04:29,600
my friend jim perry if you haven't gone

81
00:04:33,909 --> 00:04:30,800
to euphamat

82
00:04:37,270 --> 00:04:33,919
check out eufamet great podcast

83
00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:37,280
he recommended anchor so i'm gonna take

84
00:04:40,150 --> 00:04:38,560
his recommendation

85
00:04:41,990 --> 00:04:40,160
and i'm gonna cruise over to anchor and

86
00:04:43,510 --> 00:04:42,000
see what's up there so yeah

87
00:04:45,990 --> 00:04:43,520
keep up with us on all those all those

88
00:04:47,909 --> 00:04:46,000
platforms and actually go to youtube

89
00:04:49,749 --> 00:04:47,919
and subscribe to hero paranormal on

90
00:04:51,990 --> 00:04:49,759
youtube

91
00:04:53,670 --> 00:04:52,000
things that are hard to dispute in these

92
00:04:56,870 --> 00:04:53,680
cases are many

93
00:04:58,390 --> 00:04:56,880
whether it's the brooklyn bridge ufo

94
00:05:01,590 --> 00:04:58,400
investigation

95
00:05:03,029 --> 00:05:01,600
whether it is the rendelsome forest

96
00:05:05,830 --> 00:05:03,039
investigation which is

97
00:05:06,629 --> 00:05:05,840
british version of roswell with distinct

98
00:05:09,270 --> 00:05:06,639
differences

99
00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:09,280
or whether it's the mother lode the

100
00:05:14,950 --> 00:05:11,440
roswell investigation

101
00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:14,960
with no further ado the only guy you can

102
00:05:19,430 --> 00:05:16,400
ask about the three

103
00:05:23,430 --> 00:05:19,440
and get the most information

104
00:05:26,230 --> 00:05:23,440
prolific writer inspired researcher

105
00:05:27,270 --> 00:05:26,240
but most importantly overall good guy

106
00:05:29,990 --> 00:05:27,280
john steiger

107
00:05:30,390 --> 00:05:30,000
welcome to the hero paranormal podcast

108
00:05:33,029 --> 00:05:30,400
i'm

109
00:05:33,909 --> 00:05:33,039
good how are you doing great doing great

110
00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:33,919
it's great to

111
00:05:37,270 --> 00:05:36,080
finally talk to you i've been just

112
00:05:39,909 --> 00:05:37,280
fascinated by

113
00:05:41,189 --> 00:05:39,919
your book i love everything about it the

114
00:05:43,909 --> 00:05:41,199
um

115
00:05:44,310 --> 00:05:43,919
the research that you have put into this

116
00:05:47,590 --> 00:05:44,320
since

117
00:05:50,230 --> 00:05:47,600
2010 is staggering and the prolific

118
00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:50,240
writing is well it's just so amusing and

119
00:05:53,670 --> 00:05:50,880
great i

120
00:05:54,230 --> 00:05:53,680
i love it everything and i wanted to ask

121
00:05:56,629 --> 00:05:54,240
uh

122
00:05:58,790 --> 00:05:56,639
let's see what i had a ton of questions

123
00:06:01,189 --> 00:05:58,800
john well let's start at the beginning

124
00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:01,199
how did you first become interested in

125
00:06:12,710 --> 00:06:09,510
well it's a bit of a long story but

126
00:06:15,749 --> 00:06:12,720
i blame my mother-in-law for that uh

127
00:06:18,390 --> 00:06:15,759
she was an insomniac uh

128
00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:18,400
but she didn't watch tv at night instead

129
00:06:22,469 --> 00:06:20,400
she listened to the radio

130
00:06:23,510 --> 00:06:22,479
and she started out listening to larry

131
00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:23,520
king who

132
00:06:27,830 --> 00:06:26,560
i i wasn't so much interested in him and

133
00:06:30,550 --> 00:06:27,840
then uh

134
00:06:31,830 --> 00:06:30,560
she he went to tv you know so then she

135
00:06:35,430 --> 00:06:31,840
switched over to art

136
00:06:37,909 --> 00:06:35,440
bell and his ufos and paranormal

137
00:06:39,749 --> 00:06:37,919
and then she would uh regale me with

138
00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:39,759
tales of what was going on in the art

139
00:06:43,350 --> 00:06:40,240
bell

140
00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:43,360
show and then uh also uh inform me

141
00:06:47,749 --> 00:06:46,240
uh how sad she was that i had to work

142
00:06:50,070 --> 00:06:47,759
during the day and so i couldn't

143
00:06:53,350 --> 00:06:50,080
possibly stay up and listen to

144
00:06:54,309 --> 00:06:53,360
art bell at night but i just had to show

145
00:06:56,629 --> 00:06:54,319
her up

146
00:06:58,469 --> 00:06:56,639
and i went to sleep with the radio on

147
00:06:59,350 --> 00:06:58,479
and at times you know you wake up in the

148
00:07:01,350 --> 00:06:59,360
middle of the night

149
00:07:03,749 --> 00:07:01,360
and i would be listening to art bell and

150
00:07:06,870 --> 00:07:03,759
i got snippets here and there

151
00:07:08,790 --> 00:07:06,880
uh all through the years of art bell and

152
00:07:09,990 --> 00:07:08,800
and linda moulton howe richard c

153
00:07:13,510 --> 00:07:10,000
hoagland and all his

154
00:07:15,749 --> 00:07:13,520
uh famous people he had on there

155
00:07:17,589 --> 00:07:15,759
so anyway that that was an introduction

156
00:07:19,830 --> 00:07:17,599
to ufos

157
00:07:21,990 --> 00:07:19,840
um i was doing other things though at

158
00:07:25,110 --> 00:07:22,000
the time like writing fiction and and

159
00:07:28,230 --> 00:07:25,120
uh actually directed to movies

160
00:07:28,710 --> 00:07:28,240
of very low budget movies and so that

161
00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:28,720
took up

162
00:07:35,110 --> 00:07:31,840
quite a bit of time but eventually

163
00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:35,120
i got out of all that and um

164
00:07:39,830 --> 00:07:38,400
i started i went to uh two conferences

165
00:07:42,309 --> 00:07:39,840
in washington dc

166
00:07:44,150 --> 00:07:42,319
one in 2010 and then the citizens

167
00:07:47,830 --> 00:07:44,160
hearing in 2013

168
00:07:48,390 --> 00:07:47,840
and and then eventually i went out of

169
00:07:51,430 --> 00:07:48,400
town

170
00:07:52,150 --> 00:07:51,440
and went to the roswell ufo conference

171
00:07:55,110 --> 00:07:52,160
which is

172
00:07:57,430 --> 00:07:55,120
uh held annually around the 4th of july

173
00:07:59,749 --> 00:07:57,440
in roswell new mexico

174
00:08:02,230 --> 00:07:59,759
and i really had a good time out there

175
00:08:05,189 --> 00:08:02,240
that was in 2015

176
00:08:05,749 --> 00:08:05,199
and on driving i drove out and on the

177
00:08:08,390 --> 00:08:05,759
drive

178
00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:08,400
back i got the idea that wouldn't it be

179
00:08:13,909 --> 00:08:10,240
interesting to um

180
00:08:17,909 --> 00:08:13,919
put the pro us uh pro ufo

181
00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:17,919
roswell witnesses up against the anti

182
00:08:23,029 --> 00:08:21,440
uh ufo roswell witnesses and so i came

183
00:08:26,469 --> 00:08:23,039
up with the idea of a

184
00:08:29,510 --> 00:08:26,479
uh of a jury trial

185
00:08:31,830 --> 00:08:29,520
um and in fact the audience

186
00:08:34,149 --> 00:08:31,840
acts as the jury and i think that's an

187
00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:34,159
and a very interesting passage

188
00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:36,640
uh when you attend the play you would

189
00:08:39,990 --> 00:08:37,680
get with your

190
00:08:40,709 --> 00:08:40,000
um play bill you would get a juror

191
00:08:42,709 --> 00:08:40,719
ballot

192
00:08:44,470 --> 00:08:42,719
and actually get to fill it out at the

193
00:08:47,190 --> 00:08:44,480
conclusion of the uh

194
00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:47,200
play and then the ushers would take it

195
00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:50,880
and it'd be tabulated during the uh

196
00:08:54,790 --> 00:08:53,440
accolades and you know uh closing with

197
00:08:56,550 --> 00:08:54,800
the with the actors

198
00:08:59,030 --> 00:08:56,560
and then finally the judge would come

199
00:09:02,870 --> 00:08:59,040
out and he would render the verdict

200
00:09:03,190 --> 00:09:02,880
well the two sides were the plaintiff

201
00:09:06,310 --> 00:09:03,200
was

202
00:09:09,350 --> 00:09:06,320
citizens for ufo disclosure now

203
00:09:11,910 --> 00:09:09,360
that's a fictional name for a group but

204
00:09:14,150 --> 00:09:11,920
there's a lot of ufo groups with with

205
00:09:18,389 --> 00:09:14,160
similar names to that so it

206
00:09:22,070 --> 00:09:18,399
it it you know lends a a

207
00:09:25,350 --> 00:09:22,080
a great uh aura of authenticity to it

208
00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:25,360
and so anyway they present

209
00:09:31,430 --> 00:09:28,720
10 first-hand

210
00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:31,440
witnesses not witnesses with first-hand

211
00:09:35,670 --> 00:09:33,760
knowledge of what went on at roswell now

212
00:09:37,829 --> 00:09:35,680
none of these witnesses has the full

213
00:09:38,710 --> 00:09:37,839
picture because roswell was such a big

214
00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:38,720
case

215
00:09:44,230 --> 00:09:42,000
but if you put together what those 10

216
00:09:47,190 --> 00:09:44,240
witnesses

217
00:09:48,710 --> 00:09:47,200
can testify to it'll provide you with a

218
00:09:52,550 --> 00:09:48,720
pretty full picture

219
00:09:57,829 --> 00:09:55,350
there's belief that roswell was a ufo

220
00:10:00,310 --> 00:09:57,839
crash a legitimate ufo crash

221
00:10:01,509 --> 00:10:00,320
on the other hand the united states air

222
00:10:05,750 --> 00:10:01,519
force

223
00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:05,760
has done its best to try to

224
00:10:13,190 --> 00:10:09,920
deny that any uh actual ufo crash

225
00:10:14,870 --> 00:10:13,200
occurred and they put out two reports in

226
00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:14,880
the 1990s

227
00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:17,279
these were both reports were hundreds of

228
00:10:21,829 --> 00:10:18,720
pages long

229
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:21,839
now they it boils down to

230
00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:24,720
about five witnesses and but two of them

231
00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:26,480
are kind of redundant to it

232
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:29,920
to one of the others so i really

233
00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:32,399
let them have three primary witnesses

234
00:10:34,870 --> 00:10:34,320
which is all that their reports really

235
00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:34,880
rely

236
00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:37,440
upon and then you know there's a lot of

237
00:10:40,150 --> 00:10:39,040
evidence that they've drum up in the

238
00:10:43,269 --> 00:10:40,160
report

239
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:43,279
for their uh uh

240
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,560
stance that there was no ufo crash

241
00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:48,560
so anyway and there's you know there's

242
00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:50,720
attorneys for both sides and they put up

243
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:51,839
objections

244
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:54,880
uh throughout and they have uh opening

245
00:10:59,829 --> 00:10:56,399
statements and closing

246
00:11:03,509 --> 00:10:59,839
arguments and once that is done

247
00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:03,519
then they um the judge reads

248
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:06,560
jury instructions to the audience or you

249
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:08,160
know would be to the reader you would

250
00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:09,120
read that

251
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,200
and then you can render your verdict on

252
00:11:14,069 --> 00:11:12,959
what you think happened at roswell but

253
00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:14,079
the idea is

254
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:17,519
this play puts the entire roswell case

255
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:20,000
into a nutshell now it's not totally

256
00:11:25,269 --> 00:11:21,839
comprehensive because

257
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:25,279
a play of this this sort is meant to be

258
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:26,079
taken

259
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:28,480
uh over the course of one experience to

260
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:29,279
over the course of

261
00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:32,640
one afternoon or one evening and if you

262
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:33,040
did

263
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:35,120
the entirety and all the evidence of

264
00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:37,600
roswell you're talking days if not weeks

265
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:38,160
and may

266
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:40,640
you know like an oj trial or something

267
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:42,079
to that effect

268
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:45,120
so um anyway this

269
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:48,399
this this puts roswell into a nutshell

270
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:51,120
for those who want a good introduction

271
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:52,800
to what happened there you'll have an

272
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:55,120
understanding once you reach the

273
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:58,160
read this play and uh

274
00:12:01,670 --> 00:12:00,800
so that's that's what i did uh once i

275
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:01,680
got home

276
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:04,880
now it took me um nine or ten

277
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:07,920
months to review of the literature i had

278
00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:10,000
to buy a lot of it and whatever and make

279
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:13,040
notes made extensive notes and then two

280
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:13,920
or three months

281
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:17,279
to write the play now each of these

282
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:20,880
plays of the three in my trilogy

283
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:23,279
has a bibliography so that all my

284
00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:24,000
sources

285
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:27,279
are there and you can reference them

286
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:30,399
uh if if you want for further reading

287
00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:33,600
uh there's also an extensive series of

288
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:37,920
endnotes and i mean there's uh over 850

289
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:40,079
endnotes in all three plays

290
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:42,560
so that this these plays are all very

291
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:45,600
well referenced with factual references

292
00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:48,639
and uh you can see where everything has

293
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:49,600
been

294
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:53,040
uh comes from that's uh being presented

295
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:53,920
to you

296
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:56,639
and lastly there's also an index for

297
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:57,680
each play so

298
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:01,200
if there was some uh uh

299
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:04,800
tidbit or trivia or or even an important

300
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:05,839
item that you were

301
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:08,560
interested in and you had gone through

302
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:10,880
the play and weren't sure where it was

303
00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:14,000
was you can use the index for a

304
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:16,320
handy reference and get right to the

305
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:17,680
page where

306
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:26,550
yes i you know what an amazing

307
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:29,600
way that you've chosen to guide your

308
00:13:33,870 --> 00:13:30,560
research

309
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:33,880
and as you mentioned john over

310
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:37,360
850 uh endnotes

311
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:40,720
and talk about the sources

312
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:43,040
the images and the way that you just

313
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:44,480
kind of put the person

314
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:47,920
there um i love the images i love

315
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:50,560
everything you've done here and our

316
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:51,279
guest today

317
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:54,959
john steiger prolific writer of the ufo

318
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:55,760
trilogy

319
00:14:02,230 --> 00:13:58,959
dramas for the stage john

320
00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:02,240
i wanted to kind of focus back and

321
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,480
go into some of that research because it

322
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:06,320
really is detailed

323
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,839
and i like how you delved into even the

324
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:11,279
characters that are

325
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,480
in the courtroom drama and real

326
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:16,240
characters that had real

327
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:19,199
experiences said real things under oath

328
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,680
whether

329
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:21,360
that we'll get into that and that's kind

330
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:23,199
of what i wanted to discuss

331
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:27,040
is where how you got your inspiration

332
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:29,360
obviously the the roswell trial the

333
00:14:33,910 --> 00:14:30,800
courtroom drama

334
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:33,920
and i also wanted to

335
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:37,760
ask you know the play in general um

336
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:45,110
sure um i mean i

337
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:48,639
what i did was i took every

338
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:51,519
book and i did books pretty much is

339
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:53,360
limited on roswell because there's so

340
00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:53,760
much

341
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:57,440
literature on it um i did

342
00:15:00,710 --> 00:15:00,079
books you know by like kevin randall don

343
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:00,720
schmidt

344
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:04,000
tom carey um john price

345
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:07,199
wrote a book on uh on it um and then

346
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:08,000
there's a lot of

347
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:12,399
other um you know like kind of one-offs

348
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,079
um i i let me look at the uh

349
00:15:21,700 --> 00:15:20,880
bibliography a second so i can it's

350
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:21,710
amazing um

351
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:24,240
[Music]

352
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:28,480
yeah okay uh don berliner and stanton

353
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:29,519
friedman wrote

354
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:32,959
uh an early book on it um

355
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:35,360
charles berlitz and william moore wrote

356
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:36,000
the first

357
00:15:42,069 --> 00:15:39,440
book on it um there's um

358
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:42,079
a book about uh intimate interviews with

359
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:43,360
jesse marcel

360
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:47,279
by linda corley um and then

361
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:49,920
not only did i do that side i also did

362
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:50,800
not just the

363
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:53,440
the two air force reports one one of

364
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:54,079
them is

365
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,509
colonel richard weaver and first

366
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:01,519
lieutenant james mcandrew called the

367
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:02,959
roswell report back

368
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:05,519
versus fiction in the new mexico desert

369
00:16:10,150 --> 00:16:06,320
and then two

370
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,160
two years later mcandrew alone did a

371
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:12,720
follow-up report the roswell report case

372
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:14,079
closed now these were both

373
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:17,680
done uh right before

374
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:21,199
the 50th anniversary of roswell because

375
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,320
roswell was

376
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:24,880
big in the news and the air force was

377
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:25,519
trying to

378
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:28,720
to quash it um but

379
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:32,399
anyway then there's also philip class

380
00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:37,040
calcore and um uh

381
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:40,480
uh flock uh carl flock

382
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:44,639
were three skeptics who uh on at least

383
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:47,759
flock is not always a skeptic but he's a

384
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,160
skeptic towards roswell it turned out

385
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:52,480
they they wrote important skeptical

386
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:53,519
books

387
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:57,519
uh which support the air force's

388
00:17:02,710 --> 00:16:58,800
position

389
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:02,720
so and the the play is dedicated to the

390
00:17:10,150 --> 00:17:06,559
uh investigators of of the roswell

391
00:17:15,390 --> 00:17:10,160
crash both sides both the pro

392
00:17:20,949 --> 00:17:18,549
anti-ufo side the the the two air force

393
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,959
gentlemen and also those uh three

394
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:22,480
skeptics i mentioned

395
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,760
i'm trying to give equal time to to both

396
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:27,199
sides here

397
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:30,400
um so because it's it's it's important

398
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:30,880
that

399
00:17:38,470 --> 00:17:34,000
you know we we examine the evidence

400
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:38,480
uh and fairly in order to get to the

401
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:39,360
truth

402
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:40,960
because that's what we're really trying

403
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:43,520
to get to here what was the truth that

404
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:44,080
happened

405
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:47,679
at roswell yes

406
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:51,120
i agree there's a lot of truth

407
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:54,799
in um i think mixed into your research

408
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:57,919
john and uh the

409
00:18:01,510 --> 00:17:59,679
you mentioned the three skeptics wrote

410
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:01,520
very important books

411
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:04,559
uh as far as the air force perspective

412
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:07,600
and you know these these people uh

413
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:09,919
that were working for the air force and

414
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:11,200
the skeptics

415
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:13,760
uh there's there's a lot of cases where

416
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:14,240
i think

417
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,919
people brought a lot of baggage in

418
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:17,760
possibly with them whether it's their

419
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:18,720
job

420
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:22,000
and uh you know that that not not not

421
00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:23,440
that that would affect the truth but it

422
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:25,039
may affect the way they filter the truth

423
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:28,080
when speaking to others is that true i

424
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:28,720
think that

425
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:32,559
air force reports are definitely slanted

426
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:36,400
i think the air force had a pre-ordained

427
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:39,440
um outcome

428
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:42,080
that they wanted to present i the air

429
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:43,760
force claims they looked at

430
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:46,080
and did an investigation and came up

431
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:47,200
with the truth

432
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:50,240
uh i don't i reject that personally

433
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:53,280
i i believe they had it um i mean this

434
00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:54,000
happened

435
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:56,640
at the time of the event you know they

436
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:58,880
they put out the press release stating

437
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,080
that they had a a

438
00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:02,400
saucer and then they took it back a day

439
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:04,000
later with their cover-up

440
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:06,880
done by uh general raymie out of fort

441
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:08,080
worth

442
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:09,919
i mean he came up with a very

443
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:12,720
brilliantly uh clever cover-up

444
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:16,160
uh but i we believe those were on orders

445
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:18,480
from the pentagon itself

446
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:21,840
um and so this has been their stance

447
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:25,039
all along to deny that

448
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:27,520
anything important happened even though

449
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:28,559
there's

450
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:36,710
be uh against the air force's position

451
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,440
and that's

452
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:39,600
what i try to portray on the plaintiff

453
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:45,830
and i think you do a good job of that

454
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:46,240
and

455
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:50,000
wanted to double check the air force

456
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:50,640
witnesses

457
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:53,840
it was that was sheridan cavett i hope

458
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:55,200
i'm saying that right

459
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:58,320
that's correct irving newton and dr

460
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:01,440
charles moore for our listeners that um

461
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:05,440
aren't familiar and i you know

462
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:10,480
talk about a barn burner the ufo trilogy

463
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:14,000
is john this is your first publication

464
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:17,840
and you've put a ton of research

465
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:22,880
into this you uh since 2010

466
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:24,559
and you mentioned that there may have

467
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:26,240
been a cover-up of sorts

468
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:27,679
could could be going a little bit into

469
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:30,159
detail not taking away from i i want to

470
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:31,760
move on and get into the renal shrimp

471
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:33,280
stuff as well but

472
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:34,799
could we go into that a little bit maybe

473
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:36,720
that there is a cover-up

474
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:39,280
yeah this is there's an overall general

475
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:40,640
cover-up by the

476
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:44,000
military um against the

477
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,480
ufos i mean that's i don't know if

478
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:50,880
you want to consider you know this news

479
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:51,600
that's

480
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:53,840
been breaking lately you know about the

481
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:55,840
the air force carriers and all that

482
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:58,640
is somewhat breaking it up i i really

483
00:21:02,070 --> 00:20:59,360
haven't

484
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,080
studied that extensively and and not

485
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:04,080
really in a position to testify to that

486
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:04,880
but

487
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:07,440
historically going back to 47 with

488
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:08,559
roswell

489
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:12,720
there's been denial of of ufo activity

490
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,440
on the military's part and in particular

491
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:17,520
the air force the air force is the lead

492
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:20,720
service uh with this over the army navy

493
00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:22,000
or marines

494
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,640
um just because you know they're dealing

495
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:25,840
with the

496
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:28,159
flying and most of the ufos are up in

497
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:29,360
the sky

498
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:35,760
so anyway yeah that there there's this

499
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:38,799
but the cover-up at roswell is they put

500
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:39,360
out the

501
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:41,440
press release and it's arguable that the

502
00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:43,280
press release should never have been put

503
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:45,440
out that it was a big mistake

504
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:49,200
but the base see the roswell base

505
00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:52,240
was kind of like a satellite

506
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:55,919
or it's not the the

507
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:58,480
larger base was at fort worth army

508
00:22:02,870 --> 00:21:59,200
airfield

509
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,880
which is you know a town next to dallas

510
00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:04,880
and ross well morocco is extremely

511
00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:06,559
important though because the

512
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,510
the nuclear bomb uh

513
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:09,919
[Music]

514
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:13,679
bombers were based there uh when we uh

515
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:16,799
bombed uh you know hiroshima and

516
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:18,400
nagasaki

517
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:21,600
um they did you know the

518
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:24,880
trinity site in new mexico is where they

519
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:28,480
did testing uh out of roswell and and

520
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:29,440
whatnot

521
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:32,720
but anyway the headquarters uh

522
00:22:38,230 --> 00:22:35,840
for that branch of the air force was out

523
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:38,240
of fort worth army airfield

524
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:41,280
and texas and so then they took over

525
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:43,440
because the roswell people put out the

526
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:45,520
press release the pentagon saw this they

527
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:46,880
said no you can't

528
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:50,240
this can't be that we can't have this

529
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,280
um and so then the

530
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:55,600
general raymie there and this is all

531
00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:56,320
detailed

532
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:59,039
there's a there's a general raymond was

533
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:59,840
deceased

534
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:01,919
and he never he probably would have

535
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:04,559
never come forth anyway because he was

536
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:07,200
you know very much on the air force side

537
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:09,760
but there is a

538
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:13,520
very good uh witness um

539
00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:16,320
who was the uh kind of like the

540
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:17,200
lieutenant

541
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:19,760
here brigadier general thomas jefferson

542
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:20,880
dubose

543
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:24,320
he was right below raymie and there on

544
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:25,280
the scene

545
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:27,760
and he actually came forth in his old

546
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:28,880
age

547
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:33,520
and admitted that it was cover-up

548
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,679
now the one thing he never admitted was

549
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:37,679
that there were it was ufos because he

550
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:38,080
claimed

551
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:40,720
he never saw the material itself and

552
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:42,880
that could very well be true i mean

553
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,080
the ufo material was uh

554
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:48,960
kept to you know the fewest and smallest

555
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:50,480
amount of people

556
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:54,000
but he said that that uh weather balloon

557
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:54,480
that

558
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:58,080
or so after

559
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:01,120
the uh press release was

560
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:10,950
wow wow

561
00:24:15,909 --> 00:24:14,000
big big stuff that's that

562
00:24:17,110 --> 00:24:15,919
that could you know that that's really

563
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:17,120
big

564
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:23,200
it's it's interesting i wanted to ask

565
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:24,000
you a bit

566
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:26,960
john and this is about your trip to

567
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:28,559
roswell

568
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:31,200
and you know not that the average

569
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:32,000
question

570
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:33,440
i'm not going to ask the average

571
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,000
question you may have seen

572
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:38,240
something john possibly or witnessed

573
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:39,360
something

574
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:43,200
that changed your perceptions on things

575
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,600
can we go a little bit into that you

576
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:47,440
mean the shadow being exciting

577
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:50,720
yes sir the the hump free bogart type

578
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:53,279
shadowy figure please yes

579
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:56,320
the chef okay that that occurred after

580
00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:57,039
my first

581
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,600
trip to roswell on the first night out

582
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:01,440
of roswell

583
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:04,559
actually the morning that roswell ended

584
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:04,960
on

585
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:11,760
in roswell at the hotel and then left

586
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:13,919
early in the morning

587
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,200
beginning my journey back home

588
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:19,600
i decided to go a different way than the

589
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:21,279
way i had come into town

590
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:25,440
i went a less direct way

591
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:27,760
but i wanted i don't know i just felt

592
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:28,640
like

593
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:30,799
doing something you know seeing not that

594
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:31,840
you could see much

595
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:34,559
it went in the darkness but just going a

596
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:34,960
different

597
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:37,919
route through new mexico you know it you

598
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:38,240
know

599
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,880
mexico is called the land of enchantment

600
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,720
and it's called that for good reason it

601
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,880
has so many ufo sightings

602
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:47,200
but not only does it have a ufo sighting

603
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:48,799
for me it had

604
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:51,600
and i've never seen a ufo myself i've

605
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:52,880
never seen that

606
00:25:57,830 --> 00:25:55,679
anywhere in my life a very bad vision so

607
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:57,840
it's not surprising i can't

608
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,200
i stargaze very well either but i happen

609
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:03,600
to see this shadow being

610
00:26:10,270 --> 00:26:08,159
um this was on monday july 6 2015.

611
00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:10,280
i believe it was between the

612
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:11,440
[Music]

613
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:14,480
these are small towns or small cities

614
00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:17,840
capitan new mexico and karazozo new

615
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:18,559
mexico

616
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:21,760
on the on u.s route 380

617
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:24,559
and this occurred approximately 4 30 in

618
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:25,520
the morning

619
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:28,720
now i had gotten up at 3 00 a.m as was

620
00:26:32,789 --> 00:26:29,120
my

621
00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:32,799
um practice on a travel day

622
00:26:35,909 --> 00:26:35,200
because if you i'm sorry i got up at 2

623
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:35,919
am

624
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:38,720
and i'm out you know in my car you know

625
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:40,960
having done the dogs and everything and

626
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,080
and and had my hotel room coffee

627
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:46,640
i made the hotel room coffee that foul

628
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:49,520
tasting stuff but it has caffeine in it

629
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:52,480
so that's my first coffee of the day i

630
00:26:56,710 --> 00:26:53,600
get on the road

631
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,720
at three o'clock and you know

632
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,799
between three and seven you can make

633
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:00,480
incredible time

634
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:04,480
uh you know before morning traffic gets

635
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:05,679
on the road

636
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:09,120
so anyway i was driving um

637
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,159
i was driving from roswell up to denver

638
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:14,799
but i went across the state of new

639
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:18,320
mexico over to interstate 25 and that

640
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:21,919
i would hit 25 a little bit below

641
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:24,399
socorro new mexico where there was

642
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:26,080
another ufo incident

643
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:29,440
in the 60s but but anyway and then take

644
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:33,520
25 up to denver um okay so it's 3 a.m

645
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:34,240
i'm i'm

646
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:37,600
out and by 4 30 i was

647
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:41,120
and i was going about 60 to 65 miles per

648
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:42,320
hour

649
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:45,360
um and i and i'm out in the middle of

650
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:46,720
nowhere literally

651
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:50,000
it's it's it's it's ranch land but it's

652
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:51,760
not

653
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:55,200
know like

654
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:58,320
kansas or or or nebraska or the

655
00:28:01,510 --> 00:28:00,720
you know the really good prairie land

656
00:28:04,470 --> 00:28:01,520
new

657
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:04,480
will scrub land now you they have they

658
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:04,799
have

659
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:08,399
sheep and and and whatnot but it's just

660
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:11,039
it's not as it's not as good because it

661
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:12,559
just simply doesn't get us

662
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,120
as enough moisture to be uh as fertile

663
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:19,440
so anyway i'm driving through this type

664
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:21,200
area it's a two-lane

665
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:24,240
road and uh

666
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,440
as i said i was going 60 to 65 in in the

667
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:29,440
car but i was wide awake having had the

668
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:30,480
coffee

669
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,159
okay i happened as i coming up to uh

670
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:35,919
driving along the road i have to see on

671
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:38,240
the left side of the road

672
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:42,000
a figure that was entirely in black

673
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:45,520
i mean black as coal you know how the

674
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:49,360
night is is a gloom and it's a gloom

675
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:50,000
that the

676
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:53,200
headlights can penetrate this figure

677
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:56,159
this cold black figure the light of the

678
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:57,360
headlights did not

679
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,399
penetrate it it went around it

680
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:02,720
so that you saw it was distinctive

681
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,600
figure

682
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:05,760
now there were only three things that i

683
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:07,840
made out on that figure

684
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:11,120
and that was it had a hat shaped like a

685
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,320
fedora

686
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:14,559
think i immediately thought of humphrey

687
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:15,600
bogart

688
00:29:19,669 --> 00:29:18,159
in like the big sleep of the maltese

689
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:19,679
falcon when he would

690
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:22,159
you know he'd dress in his hat and his

691
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:23,360
trench coat

692
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:27,600
other component

693
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,120
um that uh

694
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:33,760
it just it seemed like it was a trench

695
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:34,399
coat i

696
00:29:38,149 --> 00:29:36,880
i suppose it could possibly have been a

697
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:38,159
shroud

698
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:41,440
but that's i i got that

699
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:44,480
and then i had the head uh which was

700
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:46,640
between the trench coat of course

701
00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:49,679
and the hat and the only thing

702
00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:52,159
you could make out on the head was there

703
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,399
was a

704
00:29:57,430 --> 00:29:56,320
place for the notes you could make out

705
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:57,440
the nose

706
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:00,480
you could not make out eyes ears

707
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:03,840
uh no distinctive characteristics like

708
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:05,360
race ethnicity

709
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:08,720
sex even were uh or hair

710
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:11,760
were um you just couldn't see that

711
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:15,360
uh it was all black so anyway

712
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:18,640
i'm i saw it i was about 20 to 30

713
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:22,799
yards from it when i first noticed it

714
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:26,880
it immediately dematerialized

715
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:30,480
into like a light energy beam

716
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:33,600
and zipped across the highway

717
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:36,880
both oak traveling from the

718
00:30:43,310 --> 00:30:40,640
sho the left shoulder across both

719
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:43,320
lanes of the highway and then

720
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:45,200
re-materialized immediately

721
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:48,320
in the exact same shape and form um and

722
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:49,440
you know the the

723
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:52,720
detective shape and cold black figure

724
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:54,720
on the other side of the highway and

725
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:57,039
then i went zipping past

726
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:00,480
that took my estimation

727
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:03,440
less than two seconds i would say that

728
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:04,080
this

729
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:07,440
some dairy i'm i'm in a

730
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:10,720
car going 60 to 65. if that's a solid

731
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:11,360
thing

732
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:14,320
you know i could smack into it pretty

733
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:15,039
well

734
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:18,399
but i was 20 to 30 yards when it first

735
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:18,960
happened

736
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:22,159
and by the time uh it was on the other

737
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:22,559
side

738
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:24,960
i was 10 to 20 yards from it so in the

739
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:25,760
time i went

740
00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:29,120
10 yards it de-materialized streaked

741
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:29,679
across

742
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,519
and re-materialized on the other side of

743
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:33,360
the road and then i went

744
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:37,039
on pass now it took me about 10

745
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:40,799
minutes i estimate or say 10 miles down

746
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:41,679
the road

747
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:44,880
to process what happened because this

748
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:46,880
i mean you're not expecting this

749
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:49,279
especially at 4 30 in the morning out in

750
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:49,840
the

751
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:53,120
middle of nowhere and but i know what i

752
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:55,360
saw i know what happened

753
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:58,640
um i was wide awake and i thought about

754
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:00,080
turning around

755
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:05,029
i'm not going to be able to find the

756
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:08,240
spot if if it's not there

757
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:11,039
i'm you know because i just it's not

758
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:12,799
there's nothing distinctive

759
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:15,200
you know about this this landscape there

760
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:16,880
really isn't and it's

761
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:20,320
dark it's out of my way and

762
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:23,840
thirdly i don't if what if it's there

763
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:25,519
i don't want to mess with the shadow

764
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:28,000
being i'm not you know what what do i

765
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:30,880
well with it if it got across the road

766
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:33,039
in front of me there was no accident or

767
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:34,000
anything

768
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:37,039
it went its way i'm going my way i'm not

769
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:40,159
bothering it it's not bothering me

770
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:43,440
but by gods we buy guns and i kept going

771
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:46,640
yeah i i would have done the same thing

772
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:49,760
amazing experience though um

773
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:52,000
i i can't function without two seconds

774
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:53,519
out of my entire life

775
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:55,760
i've had paranormal experience two whole

776
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:56,799
seconds

777
00:33:02,630 --> 00:32:59,919
wow well

778
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:02,640
you know i can't function without that

779
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:05,039
cheap hotel coffee either so it's a good

780
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:06,640
thing you had that

781
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:08,960
maybe you would have missed it this is

782
00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:10,880
socorro new mexico and

783
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:14,399
interstate 25 4 30 in the morning middle

784
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:15,039
and no no

785
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:18,399
no no no no no no i hadn't gotten to

786
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:20,640
socorro i hadn't gotten to 25 it's not

787
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:21,600
the interstate

788
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:25,440
it's us 380.

789
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:28,559
one lane one way one lane the other way

790
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:31,840
i mean it's it's not it's not a big road

791
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:35,120
it it was i was oh god

792
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:39,360
i'm i mean i was i met maybe

793
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:41,200
probably within a hundred miles of the

794
00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:42,799
interstate but probably

795
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,760
somewhere maybe more than 50 miles i bet

796
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:47,760
from the interstate i mean i was

797
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,799
you know this is this is really in the i

798
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:52,399
was going

799
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:55,039
west okay the interstate goes north

800
00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:55,519
south

801
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:58,720
i was going general direction west

802
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:01,200
when the um shadow being was on the

803
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:02,399
south side of the

804
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:05,519
of the road and it went north across the

805
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:07,600
road i was going east to west

806
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:10,720
so it crossed my path wow it reminds me

807
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,200
a lot

808
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:13,200
of the shadow i think was the name of

809
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:15,599
the radio show

810
00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:19,280
yes yes i i i'm not familiar

811
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:22,000
with the shadow i haven't seen them as

812
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:23,760
it was a movie i think and

813
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:26,800
i haven't heard the radio show but

814
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:30,560
essentially it was a shadow um but

815
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,760
the headlights did not penetrate

816
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:35,440
it was different oh and the other thing

817
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:37,200
is um there were no

818
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:41,599
legs and it seemed to be

819
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:44,480
higher like it was off the ground

820
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:45,520
already

821
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:47,599
like i didn't have the sense that it was

822
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:50,079
standing on the ground i had the

823
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:53,599
sense that it was floating okay and so

824
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:56,720
it was you know higher than the average

825
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,079
human being

826
00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:00,400
i mean if it if it had legs and whatever

827
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:02,720
and was on the ground then it would be

828
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:06,480
say man size or you know tall woman

829
00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:09,920
size but um it seemed to me to be a

830
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:10,960
little higher

831
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:13,599
off the ground because it went straight

832
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:15,200
across

833
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,680
you see it didn't it it was uh

834
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:21,520
anyway i just it just seemed to be like

835
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:23,359
hovering there

836
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:26,480
fascinating exactly like that radio show

837
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:27,440
yeah that is

838
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:29,599
that is something that you know with any

839
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:31,599
luck i think anybody that sees something

840
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:32,240
like that

841
00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:35,760
is going to be even more uh inspired

842
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:37,280
which makes sense because this is such

843
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,480
an amazing

844
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:40,800
um and that that's why i hate to move on

845
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:43,040
from the roswell but let's go

846
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:44,720
yeah it's astonishing it was an

847
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:46,400
astonishing experience so

848
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,119
anyway oh completely and i think i think

849
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:51,359
i found the shadow let me see if this is

850
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:03,109
yeah that's the one i remember hearing

851
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:05,760
that with my great grandfather i mean

852
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:08,880
but yeah very interesting the um moving

853
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:09,200
on

854
00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:11,680
i hate to i hate to leave it but

855
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:14,079
rendulsham forest is so amazing too

856
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,000
can't leave peniston and uh

857
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,880
burrows out of this because this is such

858
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:22,560
a supporting ufo

859
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:24,880
let's let's can we go into that case a

860
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:27,119
little bit uh john

861
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:30,640
yes of course uh randallson forrest is

862
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:33,920
like the english or british version of

863
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:35,359
roswell

864
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:38,400
um now it's it's uh

865
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:41,040
it's it's better documented than roswell

866
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:43,119
because roswell was a hidden case it did

867
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:43,440
it

868
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:48,880
30 years roswell

869
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:50,800
i mean sorry but reynolds forest has

870
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:52,400
been there um

871
00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:55,040
pretty much from the beginning um it

872
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:55,839
came out

873
00:37:03,349 --> 00:36:59,359
that there was a um there were

874
00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:03,359
twin u.s air force bases

875
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:06,720
in england these this is in southeast

876
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:09,920
england not far off the coast

877
00:37:13,589 --> 00:37:12,480
the idea was this was part of nato and

878
00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:13,599
our defense

879
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,000
against um eastern europe and russia

880
00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:20,640
trying to come in you know and like

881
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,320
blitzkrieg or something over

882
00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:24,960
western europe and so but we had our we

883
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:26,079
didn't have our

884
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,119
you know planes and stuff right on the

885
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:31,440
border where russia was we had them back

886
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,800
in england but those things

887
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:34,560
you know they're fast moving and we can

888
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:37,520
get there uh in a relatively quick

889
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:41,440
amount of time so anyway

890
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:43,599
we have these two bases and this

891
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:45,760
occurred on

892
00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:48,960
three successive nights

893
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:52,000
it was christmas night boxing day

894
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:53,839
morning boxing day is the day after

895
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:54,480
christmas in

896
00:37:58,950 --> 00:37:57,359
england it's also a holiday and then uh

897
00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:58,960
boxing day night

898
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:02,000
and and the 20 and the 27th morning

899
00:38:08,030 --> 00:38:05,040
and then 27th december 27th

900
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:08,040
night and the morning of the 28th all in

901
00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:09,599
1980.

902
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:12,590
on the first night um

903
00:38:19,990 --> 00:38:14,880
[Music]

904
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:20,000
burrows and another uh air force

905
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:23,200
i believe it was a sergeant stephens

906
00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:25,680
were they they were touring the base

907
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:27,040
they didn't have

908
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:30,560
um um you know like guys

909
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:33,680
guarding the guard post uh they toured

910
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:35,760
around it because they didn't feel like

911
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:37,520
they were going to be under attack you

912
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:38,960
know because we're right in

913
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:41,520
england and whatever you know so so

914
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:42,160
anyway

915
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,720
this is how they did security and they

916
00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:46,079
patrolled it in

917
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:49,359
uh vehicles and so they

918
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:51,280
but they happened as they were at this

919
00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:52,480
they had checkpoints

920
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:55,280
and they came to it's called eastgate is

921
00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:56,640
the checkpoint one of the

922
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:58,720
famous books about it is called left at

923
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:00,480
eastgate although that's

924
00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:03,839
um been very much

925
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:06,800
debunked even even the pro-ufo community

926
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:09,520
has debunked left at eastgate book

927
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:12,720
so anyway they they saw uh

928
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:16,160
something go down a light go down

929
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:20,079
at a at a measured pace into rendelsham

930
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:21,280
forest

931
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:24,160
they went off base and this is a highly

932
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:26,800
unusual procedure normally they don't go

933
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:28,000
off base

934
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:32,400
investigate it

935
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,640
and they um they saw lights there

936
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:38,160
and the lights seemed to be coming

937
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,920
towards them so then they said you know

938
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:41,280
what we need backup

939
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:44,400
so they uh they literally backed up in

940
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:44,720
their

941
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,160
uh vehicle and then went back to the

942
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:50,800
east gate and then they phoned in you

943
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:51,760
know to get

944
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:54,880
uh reinforcements and and a

945
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:57,359
higher ranking security and that was in

946
00:40:02,550 --> 00:39:58,960
the form of jim peniston

947
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:02,560
he was the main security person on duty

948
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:03,760
that night

949
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:12,550
eastgate uh along with uh another

950
00:40:19,829 --> 00:40:16,800
uh guy who uh kabanzig at kovansic

951
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:19,839
and so stefan stayed at the gate

952
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:23,280
peniston burroughs and kvancic went off

953
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:26,319
to investigate and they all went off in

954
00:40:30,470 --> 00:40:27,520
one vehicle

955
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:30,480
they also checked their weapons because

956
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:33,040
you're not allowed to take

957
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:35,280
weapons onto english soil that's part of

958
00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:37,599
the basis agreement

959
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:40,640
okay they they go in and they

960
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:43,440
they went they left quebec back for

961
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:45,440
radio relay because they had

962
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:47,760
they wanted to be in touch with the main

963
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:48,640
base

964
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:51,599
and radio relay communications were

965
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,000
being

966
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:54,400
interfered with this is one of the first

967
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:56,560
indications that you may have a ufo

968
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:57,359
event

969
00:41:01,270 --> 00:41:00,319
because uh you know communications and

970
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:01,280
and

971
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:05,040
disrupted by

972
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:08,400
ufo activity right so anyway

973
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:11,520
then burroughs and peniston go go uh

974
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:13,680
come up and they're within about 50

975
00:41:17,829 --> 00:41:14,560
meters

976
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:17,839
of the uh of of the light

977
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:21,359
and the light is incredibly intense

978
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:24,400
and anyway peniston manages to approach

979
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:24,720
it

980
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:26,640
there was there was an explosion at one

981
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:28,160
point they hit the

982
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:31,200
dirt um when they got up

983
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:34,240
uh burrows ended up being

984
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:36,720
engulfed in light and in kind of a

985
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:37,680
catatonic

986
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:40,480
state uh he couldn't move and he was

987
00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:41,359
just

988
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:43,680
kind of like at a standstill and he

989
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:44,720
doesn't have

990
00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:48,079
great recall as to what happened uh

991
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:51,200
on that that night from that point on

992
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:54,240
until they came out of it um but

993
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:56,000
peniston went up

994
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:00,480
and he um tried to take photos

995
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:03,359
but they the military claims they were

996
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:04,000
all fog

997
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:05,680
that is possible if there was any

998
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:08,160
radiation there was traces of radiation

999
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:08,640
found

1000
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:11,839
afterwards so that they might not be uh

1001
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:15,520
fibbing about that um but then he also

1002
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:16,240
uh

1003
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:21,359
symbols

1004
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:24,480
that was on the craft and then he uh

1005
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:27,280
actually touched the craft and the craft

1006
00:42:31,030 --> 00:42:29,280
was incredibly smooth except for the

1007
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:31,040
symbols that nate felt like

1008
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:34,880
sandpaper rough and then he went to the

1009
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,079
biggest symbol it was

1010
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:38,400
one row of symbols like four symbols and

1011
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:39,359
then there was a big

1012
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:42,160
symbol above it he touched the big

1013
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:43,359
symbol

1014
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:46,720
and had a download

1015
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:49,760
into his mind suddenly of a

1016
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:53,520
binary code of zeros and ones

1017
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:57,680
just a stream of zeros and ones

1018
00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:00,880
and this is what okay this

1019
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:03,760
is his allegation this is his claim as

1020
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:04,960
to what happened

1021
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:08,640
i'm just reporting on that um okay

1022
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:12,000
so then a day or two later

1023
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:15,599
bur peniston wrote down this binary code

1024
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:19,280
in in his uh notebook it was a small

1025
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:21,440
notebook that he used it's an official

1026
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:24,880
notebook that he had uh it filled up

1027
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:29,920
15 pages with zeros and ones

1028
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:33,040
and this has been translated as a

1029
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:33,760
message

1030
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:38,800
from humans in the year 8100

1031
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:42,960
and it uh gives some

1032
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,200
the main part of the message is it lists

1033
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:47,680
coordinates on earth

1034
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:50,000
to various places one of them is a

1035
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:52,000
mythical island or an island that

1036
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:52,960
doesn't exist

1037
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:55,599
now off the cut well off the coast of

1038
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:57,520
ireland called high brazil

1039
00:44:01,510 --> 00:44:00,160
there were a bunch of other ones uh i i

1040
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:01,520
don't know them

1041
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:04,160
um you know from memory there's one in

1042
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:05,440
china there's one at

1043
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:09,119
a sakura um

1044
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:12,319
it's the place in sedona arizona there's

1045
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:13,760
one i think in

1046
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:16,079
central america there's one around the

1047
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:18,079
egypt pyramids

1048
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:21,599
etc um the thing

1049
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:24,480
that i have a problem with in that is

1050
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:26,000
that

1051
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:29,280
this message was translated from a bunch

1052
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:30,240
of zeros

1053
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:33,520
and ones you look at that there's

1054
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:35,920
you can find the zeros and ones and the

1055
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:38,319
notebook pages they're on the internet

1056
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:41,760
they're in the literature and how they

1057
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:42,880
translate this

1058
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:47,280
into this message i just i

1059
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:50,560
well i that's a little beyond me and

1060
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:53,680
also it's i don't dwell on it with the

1061
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:54,480
play

1062
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:57,760
um so i don't focus on the binary code

1063
00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:58,319
but

1064
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:01,839
i do focus on him uh

1065
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:04,480
encountering the ship and then they

1066
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:05,040
found

1067
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:10,319
the uh the landing because they had gone

1068
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,240
past it because when it flew off

1069
00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:14,880
at incredible speed they attempted to

1070
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:16,000
follow it but they

1071
00:45:20,309 --> 00:45:17,839
they weren't successful in that and then

1072
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:20,319
they came back and then they saw

1073
00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:23,119
uh burroughs found the uh the the

1074
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:24,640
impressions

1075
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:27,839
where the uh craft had been and

1076
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:31,040
also the uh you know

1077
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:34,240
broken tree branches and and where it

1078
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:37,359
had gone off and come in and whatnot

1079
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:40,640
and so then that that's pretty much sums

1080
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:42,000
up the first night

1081
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:44,079
the second night is not well known

1082
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:45,599
because again

1083
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:49,839
they saw a craft go into the forest

1084
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:53,520
two uh airmen uh

1085
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,040
left the base one of them was a a

1086
00:46:01,910 --> 00:45:59,760
female lieutenant and and then there was

1087
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:01,920
a sergeant who also went

1088
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:03,920
um it's not even known for sure that

1089
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:05,040
they went together

1090
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:06,880
they may well have come off separately

1091
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:09,680
it's also been speculated that the

1092
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:12,560
female lieutenant took her weapon off

1093
00:46:15,349 --> 00:46:12,960
base

1094
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:15,359
and may have shot it may have lost it

1095
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:16,640
off base

1096
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:21,760
in any event she purportedly had a

1097
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:24,480
breakdown a mental breakdown and had to

1098
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:25,839
leave the service

1099
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:28,560
but again all of this is second hand

1100
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,440
testimony

1101
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:32,240
neither her nor the other gentle the

1102
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:33,200
sergeant

1103
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:35,359
have come forward and given firsthand

1104
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:36,240
testimony

1105
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:40,640
to my knowledge and so i did not include

1106
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:43,760
an act on that uh it's a three-act

1107
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:47,200
play that i have the first is uh

1108
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:49,920
penniston the second is what burroughs

1109
00:46:53,349 --> 00:46:51,200
said which

1110
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:53,359
you know he fills in what peniston said

1111
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:55,200
and then he also was out on the third

1112
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,079
night

1113
00:46:59,430 --> 00:46:58,400
so he's a good introduction to colonel

1114
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:59,440
holt's

1115
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:01,920
um investigation colonel hall's on the

1116
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:03,119
third night

1117
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:04,560
they'd have two nights of this and

1118
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:07,280
there's an airman breaking down and

1119
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:08,400
whatnot

1120
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:11,520
and he's and he was the deputy commander

1121
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:13,599
of the base second in charge

1122
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:15,760
well what happens when you're second in

1123
00:47:19,829 --> 00:47:17,599
charge well the first in charge orders

1124
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:19,839
you to go do the dirty work so he had to

1125
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:20,640
go out

1126
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:24,160
and in a patrol in the middle of the

1127
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:26,960
night when it's quite cold um this was

1128
00:47:32,309 --> 00:47:29,119
you know december in britain

1129
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:32,319
and uh he led uh

1130
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:35,040
four four other uh patrolmen i mean

1131
00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:36,480
there were a bunch of others

1132
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:39,680
uh at a staging area off base but

1133
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:41,680
they were kept to the staging area for

1134
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:42,960
the most part

1135
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,520
and they went up and and they they the

1136
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:47,280
first place they went was they

1137
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:49,839
measured did radiation measurements at

1138
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:51,599
the site where

1139
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:53,280
peniston and burroughs had their

1140
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:54,720
encounter

1141
00:48:01,589 --> 00:47:57,920
then a ufo

1142
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:01,599
a red blinking ufo with a black

1143
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:05,040
pupil came from the field which is next

1144
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:06,480
to rendelsham forest the

1145
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:09,839
rendelsham forest is a relatively rural

1146
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:10,480
area of

1147
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:13,280
england and there's actual farming uh

1148
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:15,359
adjacent to it and there was a field

1149
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:16,480
next to there

1150
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:18,880
and the ufo came out of the field into

1151
00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:21,359
the forest and was zig-zagging through

1152
00:48:24,850 --> 00:48:23,920
the trees in other words it was

1153
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:24,860
under um

1154
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:27,280
[Music]

1155
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:31,119
you know very knowledgeable uh

1156
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:34,559
power um i'm not explaining that exactly

1157
00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:36,480
right but intelligent concerns

1158
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:39,119
it was directed it wasn't it wasn't like

1159
00:48:44,069 --> 00:48:40,880
just a probe or whatever

1160
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:44,079
right so anyway it was um

1161
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:47,119
it came and they they saw this ufo they

1162
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:48,079
followed it back

1163
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:51,920
out into the field it it it silently

1164
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:52,800
exploded

1165
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:56,160
into small white

1166
00:49:02,150 --> 00:49:00,240
orbs and they flew off up into the sky

1167
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:02,160
and the next thing they know they would

1168
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:03,760
they decided that

1169
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,160
to continue going they went around the

1170
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:08,559
farmhouse into a field on the other side

1171
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:09,920
of the farm

1172
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:12,480
um in fact it could have been that they

1173
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:14,160
went into a third field and that could

1174
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:17,119
have been a different farm

1175
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:24,230
they saw up there a uh an object

1176
00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:28,160
way up in the sky came toward them

1177
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:31,839
and beam down a beam

1178
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:35,040
at their feet not

1179
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:38,160
at them because it could it probably

1180
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:39,440
could have

1181
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:42,720
hit them and maybe uh you know

1182
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:46,160
injured them but uh it came down at

1183
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:48,079
their feet they're not sure if this

1184
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:50,880
what this was a warning a sign or or

1185
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,359
what exactly how to interpret that

1186
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:55,599
then it and that lasted for about five

1187
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:56,559
seconds

1188
00:50:03,589 --> 00:49:59,680
and it was a a very pencil thin

1189
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:03,599
beam very thin beam and then

1190
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:05,920
the object went over and started

1191
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:06,800
shooting down

1192
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:09,280
beams now you have to understand they

1193
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:10,079
were

1194
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:12,640
out in the country and this is a you

1195
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:13,520
know a big

1196
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:16,640
a big area so they were some miles

1197
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,359
from the other base which is called bent

1198
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:21,520
waters they were by wood bridge

1199
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:24,079
base and they the bent waters is the

1200
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:25,040
other base

1201
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:28,720
and bentwaters was a base that had

1202
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:32,079
nuclear weapons stored on it

1203
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:35,119
and these nuclear weapons were they

1204
00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:36,000
thought

1205
00:50:42,549 --> 00:50:39,680
the object was beaming down beams

1206
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:42,559
at the nuclear weapon facility on the

1207
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:43,520
base

1208
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:46,240
not setting off the nuclear weapons no

1209
00:50:52,150 --> 00:50:48,319
nuclear weapons went off

1210
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:52,160
but checking them out for some reason i

1211
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:52,960
mean

1212
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:56,319
there's you know the reason why roswell

1213
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:57,520
i think roswell

1214
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:59,920
happens so soon after world war ii is

1215
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:00,640
that

1216
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:05,359
the hiroshima and nagasaki those nuclear

1217
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:07,040
explosions

1218
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:10,640
were observed from far distances

1219
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:13,280
and that brought earth to the attention

1220
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:14,880
of the aliens

1221
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:16,800
and so then they came here and they've

1222
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:18,160
been uh there's

1223
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:21,280
there's a great book uh about uh nukes

1224
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:23,359
and uh

1225
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:26,640
ufos uh out there uh and

1226
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:29,599
the aliens have had a lot of encounters

1227
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:31,359
at

1228
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:34,960
nuclear bases throughout the world yeah

1229
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:37,760
i i believe that there is a lot of truth

1230
00:51:41,910 --> 00:51:39,119
to that

1231
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:41,920
and uh you know another interesting

1232
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:42,480
thing

1233
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:45,119
is it's like you said they're miles from

1234
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:47,760
bentwater it's the 1980s

1235
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:50,319
these twin air force bases we've had two

1236
00:51:55,829 --> 00:51:52,000
people break down a female

1237
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:55,839
and i believe holt and um

1238
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:58,640
three nights you know even first night

1239
00:52:02,309 --> 00:52:00,480
you know broken tree branches

1240
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:02,319
second night i mean by the time the

1241
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:04,160
third night happened

1242
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:06,960
this gets really intense and i wanted to

1243
00:52:10,470 --> 00:52:08,000
ask you john

1244
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:10,480
uh the the light being incredibly

1245
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:13,280
intense and these orbs into the sky

1246
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,280
these things really remind me of you

1247
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:17,599
into basin utah type things that we see

1248
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:19,040
and i'll go into that with you

1249
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:22,319
did you say something about utah yes

1250
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:24,960
um the the lights that they reported

1251
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:25,760
sound

1252
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:30,880
those orbs into the sky the tiny white

1253
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:31,440
ones

1254
00:52:35,190 --> 00:52:33,760
and i'll go into detail about that with

1255
00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:35,200
you okay

1256
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:37,599
but the first question i wanted to ask

1257
00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:38,480
is

1258
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:40,640
i've gone i'm with you on the binary

1259
00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:43,680
code and i've gone to their purported

1260
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:47,119
gps coordinates um some

1261
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:49,520
you know like what's up with the message

1262
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:50,960
in some way i went to the one near

1263
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:51,839
sedona

1264
00:52:58,309 --> 00:52:55,040
arizona and you know

1265
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:58,319
it was private property um

1266
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:01,599
jumping forward to those lights do

1267
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:04,480
in your research did they experience any

1268
00:53:07,010 --> 00:53:05,200
emotions

1269
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:07,020
with these lights

1270
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:08,800
[Music]

1271
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:13,200
emotions with the light um

1272
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:20,230
i i honestly can't

1273
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:22,559
can't think of an emotional tie to the

1274
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:23,440
lights

1275
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:26,640
right at the moment um okay

1276
00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:29,839
there were let me say a couple

1277
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:32,240
a couple things just about the binary

1278
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:33,119
code yeah

1279
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:36,960
i'm not saying that the the uh

1280
00:53:43,270 --> 00:53:40,000
the tr that the message

1281
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:43,280
is not true i'm not saying that

1282
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:45,520
it well maybe that's what the binary

1283
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:46,400
code means

1284
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:49,760
i just have trouble with how

1285
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:52,640
zeros and ones translate to that message

1286
00:53:58,150 --> 00:53:55,359
it's the translation that i question

1287
00:53:59,349 --> 00:53:58,160
and i'm not saying it it doesn't have

1288
00:54:02,470 --> 00:53:59,359
any meaning

1289
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:02,480
it probably does but it just seems it

1290
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:04,880
seems like an amazing translation

1291
00:54:08,470 --> 00:54:06,800
that's all and the other thing i just

1292
00:54:10,710 --> 00:54:08,480
want to point out is that book that i

1293
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:10,720
was referenced about ufo and nukes

1294
00:54:15,990 --> 00:54:14,000
um i did i did research that for

1295
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:16,000
the reynolds from forest play it's by

1296
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:18,400
robert hastings ufo and nukes

1297
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:20,240
extraordinary counters at nuclear

1298
00:54:25,270 --> 00:54:22,240
weapons sites

1299
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:25,280
it's a great book um it's not

1300
00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:27,680
the mainstay of randalsham forest but

1301
00:54:30,390 --> 00:54:28,400
there's a

1302
00:54:31,829 --> 00:54:30,400
chapter on reynolds and forest and

1303
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:31,839
there's a lot of other

1304
00:54:36,829 --> 00:54:34,960
uh great information there about uh ufos

1305
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:36,839
and nukes

1306
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:40,319
i can't agree more a good friend of mine

1307
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:43,280
dave rosenfeld uh has talked to me about

1308
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:44,640
the coincidences

1309
00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:47,839
quote unquote with these ufos and nukes

1310
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:50,799
and that book by robert hastings is a

1311
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:51,599
good one

1312
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:54,079
and i have been i've become a believer

1313
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:54,880
john

1314
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:57,599
the um another quick question before we

1315
00:55:01,109 --> 00:54:58,079
jump

1316
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:01,119
uh to the next case was you you

1317
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:02,960
mentioned peniston tried to take

1318
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:06,000
photos and they all came down

1319
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:08,960
foggy was what were you what you didn't

1320
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:09,680
see them

1321
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:14,160
that's what the photo lab told him ah

1322
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:16,559
that answers my question photo lab said

1323
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:19,200
they came out fogged

1324
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:23,040
um now there was radiation readings

1325
00:55:30,789 --> 00:55:27,920
at the uh site where he took the photos

1326
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:30,799
it's my understanding that radiation can

1327
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:31,280
fog

1328
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:35,040
photos so it might be accurate

1329
00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:37,680
it also might be by the cover-up it's

1330
00:55:39,790 --> 00:55:39,599
unknown but the photos have never come

1331
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:39,800
out

1332
00:55:44,309 --> 00:55:41,280
[Music]

1333
00:55:47,430 --> 00:55:44,319
okay and the last question

1334
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:47,440
uh colonel halt i believe wrote

1335
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:49,839
sanitized memorandum for the official

1336
00:55:53,190 --> 00:55:50,640
record

1337
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:53,200
but i believe he also made a tape

1338
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:54,240
recording

1339
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:56,160
of the third night's events did anything

1340
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:57,839
come out on that or were you able to

1341
00:56:01,670 --> 00:55:58,559
witness that

1342
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:01,680
vital the tape is vital evidence

1343
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:05,119
it's direct involvement the the

1344
00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:08,000
the shoot down of the beam is on the

1345
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:09,280
tape

1346
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,319
it can't be denied wow it happened

1347
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:14,640
on the tape unless you're saying that

1348
00:56:18,390 --> 00:56:15,440
those guys

1349
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:18,400
on that tape are liars and this is a

1350
00:56:22,710 --> 00:56:19,359
colonel

1351
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:22,720
the time

1352
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:26,000
but became a colonel and became base

1353
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:27,200
commander

1354
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:29,599
of the of those two bases and then had

1355
00:56:31,829 --> 00:56:31,040
another important position at the

1356
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:31,839
pentagon

1357
00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:35,359
after that and also you know

1358
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:38,640
it's not just him the sergeant uh

1359
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:40,480
it's the same sergeant who was out the

1360
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:43,119
second night that sergeant is on the

1361
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:43,839
tape

1362
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:46,480
he's he actually muttered an expletive

1363
00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:48,000
because he couldn't believe

1364
00:56:54,230 --> 00:56:51,119
um what he was seeing

1365
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:54,240
and so it's not

1366
00:56:58,150 --> 00:56:56,319
yet there's it's one thing to say

1367
00:57:01,270 --> 00:56:58,160
witnesses but it's also witnesses

1368
00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:01,280
on tape so the the

1369
00:57:04,950 --> 00:57:03,280
encounter and also the encounter with

1370
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:04,960
the um

1371
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:08,640
the red object with the black pupil

1372
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:12,640
that encounter is on tape

1373
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:15,920
yeah so i mean this the tape is by

1374
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:19,680
the memorandum to be quite honest it

1375
00:57:25,270 --> 00:57:22,960
it it's demonstrates something

1376
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:25,280
happened but the thing is it's a

1377
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:26,160
sanitized

1378
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:28,960
cleaned up version there's also were

1379
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:30,880
affidavits given by

1380
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,720
uh peniston burrows and three other

1381
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:36,960
guys who were there out there on the

1382
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:37,920
first night

1383
00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:40,400
the problem with those is again they

1384
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:42,400
were afraid for their careers

1385
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:44,880
they're afraid you know they can't tell

1386
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:45,520
the whole

1387
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:48,720
truth because if they do they you know

1388
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:50,240
they might say well you know what

1389
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:52,480
you're going to wash out for this or

1390
00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:53,599
you're going to

1391
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:56,400
you know have to go to the crazy house

1392
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:57,839
for a little bit of you know need

1393
00:58:02,069 --> 00:57:59,280
psychology

1394
00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:02,079
you know what i'm saying that that it

1395
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:04,240
they just can't take it at face value

1396
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:05,119
the full truth

1397
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,160
the whole truth so um

1398
00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:10,720
the writings are one thing but the tape

1399
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:11,359
is just

1400
00:58:15,750 --> 00:58:13,839
it's it's pretty vital evidence it's one

1401
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:15,760
of the best pieces of ufo evidence out

1402
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:17,599
there

1403
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:20,480
i agree and i think that you know the

1404
00:58:23,829 --> 00:58:22,400
skeptics on this one just missed the

1405
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:23,839
boat i mean they're alleging it's a

1406
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:26,480
meteor rabbit holes the odds effect

1407
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:28,880
autokinesis and above all a lighthouse

1408
00:58:31,510 --> 00:58:29,599
this is

1409
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:31,520
an obvious win i think for colonel holt

1410
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:32,640
and

1411
00:58:36,150 --> 00:58:34,799
it's amazing i just in for the sake of

1412
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:36,160
time john i'm going to move on to the

1413
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:38,319
brooklyn bridge ufo investigation it's

1414
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:40,640
so fascinating another important case so

1415
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:41,520
we need to cover

1416
00:58:46,230 --> 00:58:44,480
it yeah could you um give our listeners

1417
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:46,240
kind of some background about that

1418
00:58:49,510 --> 00:58:49,040
and uh it is got some of the neatest

1419
00:58:51,910 --> 00:58:49,520
right

1420
00:58:52,950 --> 00:58:51,920
i believe amazing writing uh just

1421
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:52,960
because thank you

1422
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:55,040
yeah could we go into detail about that

1423
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:56,160
second act

1424
00:59:03,030 --> 00:58:59,839
okay the thing okay

1425
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:03,040
a woman claims she was abducted by

1426
00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:05,520
aliens out of her apartment right

1427
00:59:09,670 --> 00:59:06,799
through the closed

1428
00:59:11,430 --> 00:59:09,680
window floated out the aliens came into

1429
00:59:11,990 --> 00:59:11,440
her apartment and this was on november

1430
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:12,000
30th

1431
00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:15,200
1989. she ended up

1432
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:18,799
in the company of um who is later

1433
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:22,400
claimed is the united nations secretary

1434
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:23,440
general who's the

1435
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:25,920
highest political position in the entire

1436
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:26,880
world and

1437
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:29,599
his two bodyguards the two bodyguards

1438
00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:30,160
are the

1439
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:32,400
first two men and the third man is how

1440
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:33,680
they refer to

1441
00:59:38,630 --> 00:59:35,839
the secretary general that's secretary

1442
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:38,640
general's javier perez de cuellar

1443
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:41,359
perez de claire officially denies that

1444
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:43,440
anything happened he says i was in bed

1445
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:45,119
asleep that night

1446
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:48,400
but he also sent a letter

1447
00:59:55,109 --> 00:59:52,640
on un stationary and it looks exactly

1448
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:55,119
i shouldn't say he sent a letter but

1449
01:00:00,309 --> 00:59:56,880
hopkins has a letter

1450
01:00:02,630 --> 01:00:00,319
which is on un stationary in the form of

1451
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:02,640
a known letter of de cuellar

1452
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:05,920
and signed by um

1453
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:08,160
what looks to be a de quay our signature

1454
01:00:11,589 --> 01:00:09,119
saying that

1455
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:11,599
yes it's true we were abducted by aliens

1456
01:00:16,309 --> 01:00:13,520
but i have to officially deny it and i

1457
01:00:19,589 --> 01:00:16,319
will continue to officially deny it

1458
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:19,599
okay so that's just one of the many

1459
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:21,760
contradictions in this case

1460
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:24,720
there's there's a there's there's

1461
01:00:27,829 --> 01:00:26,000
problems with the

1462
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:27,839
main witness she's made some claims it

1463
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:29,760
seems like they're embellished

1464
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:33,200
um there's also some

1465
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:36,880
things that are hard to disprove too

1466
01:00:41,349 --> 01:00:40,559
so it looks like we have a real mix here

1467
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:41,359
of

1468
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,400
truth and fantasy shall we say

1469
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:46,720
now bud hopkins was a famous ufo

1470
01:00:53,990 --> 01:00:49,599
investigator he investigated the case

1471
01:00:56,630 --> 01:00:54,000
uh linda cortille is the main civilian

1472
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,640
who and she is uh her hypnotic

1473
01:01:00,630 --> 01:00:58,160
regressions which is a

1474
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:00,640
a technique used by bud hopkins to get

1475
01:01:05,589 --> 01:01:02,559
the truth of alien abduction

1476
01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:05,599
that's the first act of the of the uh

1477
01:01:10,230 --> 01:01:08,240
play you have them acted out in the

1478
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:10,240
second act of the play

1479
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:14,160
um bud hopkins um

1480
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:17,280
an independent filmmaker who who uh

1481
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:21,440
took the film of these regressions

1482
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:24,559
were hypnotic regressions were um filmed

1483
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:28,480
for um you know later uh later use and

1484
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:30,160
reference and whatnot

1485
01:01:33,910 --> 01:01:31,760
just like you know halls had his tape

1486
01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:33,920
these have these are on videos

1487
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:37,119
so that person in the

1488
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:39,359
play is called carla roberts it's a

1489
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:42,480
fictional name i'm not

1490
01:01:49,190 --> 01:01:45,520
naming the real person at this time and

1491
01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:49,200
but they took great offense

1492
01:01:53,589 --> 01:01:52,640
over time they came to to not believe in

1493
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:53,599
this case and

1494
01:01:58,150 --> 01:01:57,039
and have real doubts about alien

1495
01:02:00,789 --> 01:01:58,160
abduction

1496
01:02:03,190 --> 01:02:00,799
so anyway there's a tremendous debate

1497
01:02:05,510 --> 01:02:03,200
among these three principles

1498
01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:05,520
in the second act particularly the two

1499
01:02:10,549 --> 01:02:06,799
women these are

1500
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:10,559
two great roles for uh if there's any

1501
01:02:15,029 --> 01:02:12,960
uh actresses out there who would be

1502
01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:15,039
interested in a great role

1503
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:18,319
either carla roberts or linda cortelli

1504
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:21,520
is the role for you you need to uh check

1505
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:22,480
out this play

1506
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:25,920
will to believe um the brooklyn bridge

1507
01:02:31,029 --> 01:02:28,000
ufo investigation

1508
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:31,039
it's it's all takes place on a stage

1509
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:34,240
and it's very actor-centric

1510
01:02:40,390 --> 01:02:37,760
this this play um

1511
01:02:41,190 --> 01:02:40,400
and then the the u.n secretary general

1512
01:02:43,829 --> 01:02:41,200
appears

1513
01:02:44,789 --> 01:02:43,839
as a kind of a background character but

1514
01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:44,799
mainly

1515
01:02:49,029 --> 01:02:48,160
uh the play revolves around what

1516
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:49,039
happened

1517
01:02:52,390 --> 01:02:51,280
allegedly i'm going to say allegedly

1518
01:02:56,150 --> 01:02:52,400
happened with the

1519
01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:56,160
brooklyn bridge ufo uh investigation by

1520
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:57,280
bud hopkins and

1521
01:03:00,789 --> 01:02:59,839
of these alien abductions but what it

1522
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:00,799
comes down to

1523
01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:04,559
what i use this for is a probe of the

1524
01:03:11,029 --> 01:03:08,240
ultimate question of the ufo experience

1525
01:03:12,069 --> 01:03:11,039
and that is is your mind open to the

1526
01:03:15,109 --> 01:03:12,079
possibility

1527
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:15,119
or is it closed in other words do you

1528
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:18,880
have the will to believe in ufos

1529
01:03:22,069 --> 01:03:21,520
do you have that will to believe if you

1530
01:03:24,950 --> 01:03:22,079
do

1531
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:24,960
then you can get to it's prerequisite to

1532
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:25,920
getting to

1533
01:03:30,230 --> 01:03:28,880
belief in ufos if you don't if your mind

1534
01:03:33,109 --> 01:03:30,240
is closed

1535
01:03:35,029 --> 01:03:33,119
then as far as i'm concerned you are not

1536
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:35,039
going to be able to get to belief in

1537
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:36,400
ufos

1538
01:03:43,190 --> 01:03:39,760
and you may be closing off

1539
01:03:45,829 --> 01:03:43,200
the truth amen what

1540
01:03:46,309 --> 01:03:45,839
when you the will to believe fails you

1541
01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:46,319
are

1542
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:49,920
closing off the truth wow

1543
01:03:57,029 --> 01:03:53,520
amen that's what i am trying to get at

1544
01:04:00,069 --> 01:03:57,039
uh with the writing of this play

1545
01:04:01,910 --> 01:04:00,079
and wow this is amazing i mean the un

1546
01:04:05,029 --> 01:04:01,920
secretary general

1547
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:05,039
bud hopkins we have javier denying

1548
01:04:09,670 --> 01:04:07,440
anything happen but yet the admitted

1549
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:09,680
possible alien abduction through another

1550
01:04:13,670 --> 01:04:11,520
letter that bud has this

1551
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:13,680
things that are hard to dispute in the

1552
01:04:18,309 --> 01:04:14,640
case

1553
01:04:20,549 --> 01:04:18,319
it is amazing john and i think that your

1554
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:20,559
your last two ending scenes and the

1555
01:04:26,549 --> 01:04:23,039
summations of the experience are amazing

1556
01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:26,559
to me this this your ultimate question

1557
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:29,280
perfectly kind of sums up the podcast

1558
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:30,240
it's so

1559
01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:32,079
true is your mind open to the

1560
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:34,240
possibility or is it closed

1561
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:36,480
where can our listeners keep up with you

1562
01:04:40,470 --> 01:04:37,760
and what you're doing

1563
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:40,480
and help you along your journey of

1564
01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:42,720
bringing us this amazing stuff

1565
01:04:46,789 --> 01:04:44,720
well okay first of all the books

1566
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:46,799
available on amazon you can get it

1567
01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:47,280
either

1568
01:04:53,829 --> 01:04:50,400
in a a tangible a

1569
01:04:55,109 --> 01:04:53,839
large paperback copy or electronic

1570
01:04:59,029 --> 01:04:55,119
version which is really

1571
01:05:02,789 --> 01:04:59,039
inexpensive um either one

1572
01:05:06,829 --> 01:05:02,799
if you want to talk to me you can

1573
01:05:10,349 --> 01:05:08,390
j-o-h-n-s-t-e-i-g-e-r

1574
01:05:13,470 --> 01:05:10,359
[Music]

1575
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:13,480
gmail.com that's john steiger

1576
01:05:20,069 --> 01:05:17,039
2001 gmail.com

1577
01:05:20,950 --> 01:05:20,079
wow thank you so much wow thank you so

1578
01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:20,960
much john

1579
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:23,680
it's just amazing and i wish we could

1580
01:05:27,430 --> 01:05:25,280
just talk for hours

1581
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:27,440
and i'm hoping you have a great weekend

1582
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:29,440
and i'll i hope to talk to you soon my

1583
01:05:33,270 --> 01:05:30,640
friend

1584
01:05:34,870 --> 01:05:33,280
thanks very much i've enjoyed it i

1585
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:34,880
appreciate you having me on

1586
01:05:42,309 --> 01:05:39,200
thank you bye-bye wow what a barn burner

1587
01:05:43,109 --> 01:05:42,319
john steiger bring in the heat and i'll

1588
01:05:46,549 --> 01:05:43,119
tell you what

1589
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:46,559
it's it's in my opinion a defeat to

1590
01:05:52,230 --> 01:05:47,920
those who don't believe

1591
01:05:54,950 --> 01:05:52,240
three amazing cases amazing cases

1592
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:54,960
and the research that john's gone to is

1593
01:05:59,510 --> 01:05:56,480
just

1594
01:06:02,309 --> 01:05:59,520
unbelievable you know

1595
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:02,319
there is so much real life drama that is

1596
01:06:06,549 --> 01:06:03,200
detailed

1597
01:06:09,029 --> 01:06:06,559
in the research that i think

1598
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:09,039
it really becomes the will to believe

1599
01:06:12,710 --> 01:06:10,720
and

1600
01:06:14,309 --> 01:06:12,720
his ultimate question of whether your

1601
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:14,319
mind is open

1602
01:06:19,349 --> 01:06:17,440
or not to the possibility

1603
01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:19,359
until next time keep your eyes to the

1604
01:06:21,829 --> 01:06:21,200
skies feet on the ground but don't

1605
01:06:35,180 --> 01:06:21,839
forget

1606
01:06:35,190 --> 01:06:39,109
[Music]

1607
01:07:28,770 --> 01:06:41,990
come blast off in my time machine third